Is this normal in Belgium?

[Viking girl]

Hi all,

I'm sorry, but my Flemish is not good enough to write about such complicated subject.

I come from Scandinavia, have been living here some years now. I was married for relatively long time, 15 years. In the last year of my marriage my ex-husband (not belgian) started behaving very jealous and agressive. He failed in his business plans, and I was always popular at my working place, often chosen as employee of the month etc. I guess all that was too much for his self-esteem and he lost his mind.

He started accusing me without a reason and beating me severely in front of our children, the youngest one was about 2 yrs old at that time. He kept a knife on my throat many times and threatened to kill me. He hit my head on the floor. He said if I would tell anyone he would kill me right away. I moved away from the house we bought, I rented a house just few hundred meters from him so that it would be easy for the kids. We agreed that 2 kids were in my address, and 2 in his. I mean officially, but kids were free to come and go how they liked. He did not leave me in peace, he came often to my door telling me that one day he'll finish me. This started happening all the time. I was extremely scared and so were my parents in my Nordic country of origin. My parents asked me to come there to be safe, to save my life. They told me that I could not take the kids because then I would be accused of being a child kidnapper.

That was the hardest thing of my life. But I had to think that my kids needed their mom alive. So I left to my country, I called the kids and my ex that I had gone away for a while. I also bought flight tickets so the kids came to visit me. I was gone for about 8 weeks, in that time my youngest one was 3 weeks with me in my country and another girl also 1 week. Meanwhile my ex also went travelling, and that's when I came in Belgium during those weeks to be with the kids. If he was out of here, I would be safe.

After few weeks my ex told me that now he understood that he had made a mistake and promised to change if I would come back. I believed him, and things were fine for few weeks and then the violence started again. This time I finally went to see a doctor, who wrote a proof. Then I went to the police. They told me that it was hard to find a place with 3 kids in a safety house. Now that I had told the police our family 'secrets' my life was in great danger. They found a place for me and my youngest child in a 'vluchthuis'.

I got a lawyer from that place and we went to 'vredegerecht' and suprisingly they made a decision that I had not enough proofs and because I had left to another country the children must live with the father. My ex also manipulated one of our children to say in the court that she want to live with the father. The judge then thought that all kids should live with father! They said that I can see my kids every other weekend from Saturday until Sunday. In the time of the decision my youngest daughter was 3 yrs old! I felt that I was treated as a criminal! Or some drug user or alcoholic! I am the victim and my kids as well and I have to pay the price.

Me and all my friends and family are shocked. I like Belgium and Belgian people, but I have to say that such decision could never take place in many other countries.

Only "mistake" I did was leaving for few weeks to save my life! My ex had not ever hit the children, that's why I knew they would be OK with him. But now of course I understand that he did also violence towards them by hitting me so much in front of them.

What do you think about this?

[Kindenbelang]

Hi,

I red your story and must say that it shocked me! Fact is: many situations in families here in Belgium are not right objected by the Law and his officers in belgium.

Please write me and I will contact you to try further actions towards the safety of your kids.

send and email to

[email protected]

[Franciscus]

My English is not good enough (anymore) to write in English.

So I have to do it in Flemisch.

Er zijn twee procedures die hier spelen
EEN: een strafrechtelijke waar het Intra Familiaal Geweld voorop staan en uiteraard het zoeken van oplossingen.
In deze procedure bestaat de mogelijkheid om dwangmaatregelen op te leggen aan de vader.
U kan geholpen worden door de dienst SLAchtoffer ZOrg van uw lokale politiezone.
U kan ook eerst terecht op een CAW http://www.caw.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.juridischforum.be/forum/view ... 89&t=46358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

De TWEEDE procedure is inderdaad een eerste stap, via de vrederechter.
Deze oordeelt op BASIS van de info die hij/zij heeft ... indien er dus geen PV's van de politie zijn of de vrederechter door uw advocaat niet is ingelicht.

U zal een echtscheidingsprocedure moeten opstarten mocht u willen scheiden.
http://www.belgium.be/nl/familie/koppel ... scheiding/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://justitie.belgium.be/nl/themas_en ... scheiding/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.familie-recht.be/index.php/b ... gangsrecht" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wat de stelling betreft inzake 'not right objected' dat is het gevoel van Kindenbelang..... maar wil niet zeggen dat het ook zo is.
(Wat niet wil zeggen dat er geen aberraties zijn ...en geloof me daar ken ik er ook een heleboel van).
Met de goede juridische ondersteuning kan de zaak zeker worden rechtgetrokken.

Trouwens als u aangifte doet bij politie zal u zo wie zo ook als aangever beroep kunnen doen op een tolk/vertaler.

Dus Kindenbelang als u wil vertalen.... doe maar.

[Viking girl]

Dear friends,

I saw our messages only now, as I have not been logging into this site, because I did not expect to have any answers. I will now tell you more, and I am sure after reading my story you will understand why I did not even think of having any answers. It feels like nobody cares in this country, what a horror my life has turned into.

The situation was so, that the violence started in November 2010 ongoing until January 2012. That's when finally I went to the police as I explained everything. In June 2012 we got that crazy decision from vredegerecht. The lawyer I had via vluchthuis did not tell me that there was only one month appeal time. I am a foreigner here and I don't know about law here. I was helpless and completely desperate.

I contacted CAW to have an urgent appointment, to get some help. It was summer and time of the holidays, so they gave me an appointment too late. When I finally went there, they told me about one month appealing time.

After few months I went to see a new lawyer, he told me that it’s not good to start a procedure during the school year. He said that it was better I’d wait until the end of the decision and so also end of the school year. Later he told me that he will stop working as a lawyer, so I knew that I would need to find a new one again.

It is so unbelievable how could Belgian state possibly separate me from my 3 years old child, so that I would have right to have her with me only 2 nights per month! I'm sorry, but what kind of country this is?

I was a victim of violence and my kids had to see their mother being beaten. My kids would hide under bed crying in those moments. I was begging my ex not to kill me, please not in front of children. He did not care at all.

I have always been working here in Belgium, and my ex does not work. I found him 3 different jobs, he left them all with different excuses.

The decision of the vredegerech was made for one year. In May I went to see a new lawyer, who sits even in the ‘Raad van de orde’ in the city I live. I told her about the decision and that it would soon be over and that I need to start a case in jeugdrechtbank in order to have my children with me. The lawyer said fine, but then I realized nothing was happening. I was e-maling and calling after her many many times, and she always told me she will do it soon.

Time went on and on, so that it was already October 2013 and still nothing had happened. I had to contact Strafhouder van Balie, proving all my contact attempt to that lawyer. Strafhouder had contacted my lawyer, because suddenly I got a call from her and she was apologizing and explained that she had just been so busy with her life!

So how about my life and the life of my children?! My youngest child always crying after me, and when I have to return them to their father she is crying so much because she does not want to go.

In August 2013 she was one day with me at my working place in the office. While I was on the phone my little daughter (born 8/2008) was talking with my 2 colleagues. When I finished the call I saw my daughter making some movements with her hands. Movements like hitting someone. I asked my colleagues what’s going on. They told me that she had just told them, two totally strangers to her, that her dad has started to hit her. She also told them that she never wants to go to her dad again.

[Viking girl]

October 2013 I had to change the lawyer again, because of course the trust was gone to a lady lawyer who was too busy with her life. I have a letter from Strafhouder stating that there was an issue and it is solved now, as the lawyer had apologized to me. Yes, but how was it solved when me and my children need to wait so long time and suffer.

In November 2013 we went finally to jeugdgerecht and in December 2013 got temporary decision stating that nothing will be changed until the social investigation is done. And the new decision would be taken in June 2014. Can you imagine, two long years, my little daughter has been separated from me.

My ex-husband had a perfect change to manipulate children as much as possible against me, but he has only been successful with the eldest girl (now 15 yrs) as it is the same girl he turned against me already before. This girl was always feeling jealous about her sisters and me giving attention to her younger sisters, so she was an easy target to manipulate.

My ex also lives in a house that has lot of dangers for the children, humidity and for example no ‘aarding’ for electricity. Old house with narrow staircases which are also dangerous. Myself I live in a beautiful new big apartment. The social lady I have been meeting now few times, told me that I do have indeed a better home, but that it does not matter at all on the decision.

My children living with their father means also that they sit in total 3 hours a day in the school bus. In the morning 1 and half hour and in the evening again 1 and half hour. If they would live with me, they would have 5-10 minutes to the school with my car.

My ex is playing a dirty game. He told the social lady and the court incredible lies about me, that I have different men and relationships and that I bring different men in our children’s life.I've had a relationship after my divorce, but I did not even bring it to my children's life and how is that any worse than my ex having another woman while he was still married to me. He also went to the police and said that I want to kill our children. He also wrote a complaint to the police that he did not have enough sex in our marriage. The police wanted to hear me, and they were also laughing, how is possible that someone even tells such things to the police, about them not having enough sex. The police also advised me to be strong and fight for my kids. They told me that unfortunately they can’t make the decision, but it is the court who decides.

My ex is a very charming person, he looks somewhat what we think Jesus would look like. Big innocent sky blue eyes and long hair. He is also a good looking man and charms any woman, young or old. We also have a handicap daughter, and now that kids live with him he has made himself to look like a hero taking care of our ill daughter as well.

My ex had already a new woman when he was with me. Hidden of course, now they are married. This woman came from another country to live here, and either one of them is not working. They are thinking to live off on my children. Because of the handicap, the child allowance is high.

[Viking girl]

The social lady told me that it’s going to be a difficult decision, because of our daughter’s handicap for instance, as she needs stability in her life and week-week system wont work with her. On the other hand the 15 years old daughter who has been brainwashed want to live with the father, and they do not like to separate children.

My little daughter, who is now 5 years old, is emotionally completely destroyed, thanks to the Belgian state. In the end of the summer she will turn 6, and she has started thinking about many things. Kids in that age talk about life when they are going to be big themselves. My daughter said to me with a worried face, that when she is big and has her own children, do they also need to go to her father and that she does not want ever send her children to her father. I was honestly quite speechless, I was trying to smile and answered ‘Don’t worry, everything is going to be fine and at that time your dad will be a grandfather and he’ll be friendly to your kids’

On other occasion we were watching old photographs. She was looking at one image of the time when she was still a baby, and then suddenly got very sad and worried and asked ‘Mom, did father hurt me also when I was a baby’ with tears on her eyes. I told her ‘No way, your daddy loves you’

In November 2013 when we were in the jeugdgerecht I told them what my colleagues had told about my ex hitting our daughter. Apparently he got scared, because ever since my daughter has not been talking about it anymore. I do not ask her, because I do not want to manipulate her in any way. I trust her that she will tell me if something like that happens. She already had told me that in summer 2013, but I was surprised that she told it also to my colleagues. That’s when I really understood that she was calling for help, in a way of a child. I am sure she has said that also in the school, but as most teachers and social workers seem not to care, they have never told me about it. Schools here are also too crowded and teachers are not holding a university degree (unlike in my country where it’s a must), they are not often even capable to regognize issues.

Now we will have a new decision in June 2014, and I have so mixed emotions. I do not trust this country anymore or the authorities here. I never got any help regarding anything. Regarding that I was a victim of a severe domestic violence, regarding that my kids are also victims. I am a foreigner here and I did not know how and where to find help, also because I never had to deal with something like this before in my life.

One thing I did not mention yet, is that my daughter whom my ex had manipulated, in this time that she has been living with my ex, she has started to cut herself with the knife. I have several facebook conversation proofs where she is writing that she wants to kill herself and also that she will never tell the truth of what happened in our family, meaning that she saw her dad trying to kill me. She cannot say that, because she cannot say anything bad about her dad. That's how he has brainwashed her.

The social lady set by jeugdgerect told me that my daughter's behaviour is normal behaviour for a teenage girl in a difficult situation. But in the same time she is convinced that she is happy with the father, because she keeps smiling in those meetings and telling the same old lies. I have shown those facebook conversations, but the social or the court do not seem to care.

I don't know where I have found strenght to go through this. The Belgian state separating me, the victim, from my kids. I have never had any mental issues and I am not a drug addict or an alcoholic. I work and in the evenings I am just home. I have friends and I was always known as a happy and friendly person.

I have to say that all my family back in Scandinavia are traumatized by all this and they all think that Belgium is a country from medieval ages.

These next 6 weeks or so are very long for me and I am waiting for a new decision. If it is a crazy one again, as the first one, what can I do? Can I make an appeal to Haag human right's court or something?

[stace]

hi im in such kind situation to my kids are with there father after him telling lies about me and they done a search on me for about 2years this year i went to the court and they said that i was clear from everything now i need to go to the jeugdrechter for my kids i diddent see my kids for a year i wassent aloud because i am inglish and my mother and ex keep sayi g that i will take my kids and leave the country that is also no true. and now the court saidi can see the kids every 2 weeks for 1day and the kids are 7 and 4. i know its terrible here in belguim they say its one european law but belguim dont keep to it i contacted the inglish embassy and they even said that belguim is corrupt! and they dont like working with belguim.
if i may ask what court is it in belguim you go to? my ex never hitted me but he never to care of the childeren i been looking afterthem on my own and when he did get them he dumpt them on hes parrents but parrently thats all normal here in belguim
i

[Viking girl]

Hi Stace,

I'm sorry to hear that. There is also a lot of racism here and that can also play a part in all this. However, my ex is also a foreigner from Southern Europe and myself I come from a country much more developed than Belgium as Nordic countries are more advanced.

All those lies of the ex partner, how is possible that the court and social etc. believe it, as for example my ex does not have any proofs against me. And me, I do have proofs of his violence etc. He also told them that I beat him. I asked them that how is possible that I, a woman, could beat a man who is 1,90 tall, 120 kg pure muscles and pro in martial arts.

The first and only decision I have so far is from Vredegerecht and now waiting for a new decision from Jeugdgerecht. I live in a Flemish city about 20 km from Brussels.

I never even wanted to move here to this country, but my ex wanted to. Me and my kids made a great sacrifice to move here. Now my kids are separated from grandparents, aunts, cousins and all friends as they all live in Scandinavia. Because of my ex wanting to live here me and the kids cannot return to my my country. My kids will have to live in a polluted country with a low standard of education now:

http://www.xpats.com/change-attitude-ne ... y-agencies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.xpats.com/belgian-cities-among-most-polluted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[stace]

i understand where you are coming from i diddent even wanted to life here my mum kidnapped me from my dad in england and know after 18years having contact again with family from there. they are stopping me to go and see them so belgium is not fair at all. and i need to wait till september to go back to the judge i keep asking to go so i can speak and they are saying no you need to wait till september i really hate belgium

[delady]

hi, can I ask you if you have friends who can translate?
my youngest daughter was placed by a "jeugdrehter" because social worker thaught it was "better for her"...
I searched and searched and made phones to brussels for many times and got 2 other social workers...
it was only that people who worked where my child was placed, who saw that we were not dangereous to her who "helped" us...

I "demanded" as much contact with the social worker and could convince that we missed our little girl and "demanded" alsp physical(?) help for her...because she was cuttig herself too...

I must say that the physical help was only a woman who was still in education but that there was sometime was happing, gae me more hope to ge our child back

she was 1.5 year away from our family...

http://wvg.vlaanderen.be/jongerenwelzijn/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this phonenumber I called many, many times but I did not give up!

don't give up

please call this people in brussels,

demand a new social worker they can help you!!!

and tell them over and over again, that you want your little family back...


jongerwelzijn brussel
Bel gratis: 0800 900 33
(ma: 09u00 – 13u00; wo & vr: 13u00 – 18u00)



Stace, are you 18?

don't you have a childlawyer?

[stace]

i speak flemish to im now 25 years old and i had my first child when i was 17 years old and gave everything up to look after my childeren i always put them first and there father alwayse cheated on me and i left him he never lookt to them and now he is doing this to help my mulbecause she dont like it me having contact with my dad and family in england .

the kids have a laywer and i but they arrent really busy with the wholle situation

[stace]

ik heb die nummer vorige jaar gebeld en iedere week belde ze om te vragen dat ik verder met me klacht wou en dat ik in mail wou zetten wat er precies allemaal is en wat me consulent niet deed voor 3maanden hebben ze dat gedaan

[Viking girl]

Thank you delady, I will check that out if the next decision is not OK. And as I said, this time I will contact even Haag human rights court if needed. At the time of the first decision I was simply so shocked, that I was not even able to do much. I did not know that the appeal time was only one month. It took me months just to recover from the shock and anger. It seems that this country is some sort of Belgistan, because only in such countries a violent woman's beater is not being punished, quite the opposite, because he was even rewarded by having our children and child allowance plus the alimony money from me.

Too bad, because I really used to like Belgium before. I found this a very charming little country and I thought Belgians were nice people. I do have to say that when I first came here and had to start to find schools and services for my children (including special services for a handicap child), I did notice immediately that teacher and school staff etc. were not nearly so aware of a child psychology as for example even just a normal person in my country. I was not really able to explain why it was like that. Now I understand, after reading about the subject, that teachers and social workers here are not even academics. That explains a lot. Lack of intelligence, simple as that.

It seems that also catholic religion has something to do with this as well. I realized when I first came here that in all sort of papers was always man's name asked first and then wife's name. In my country it's the opposite. My lawyer also told me that in Belgian court father and mother are seen as equal. Well, we also have equality in my country, but we also know about child psychology that a young child should never be separated from her mother as long as mother is 'normal', not mentally ill, alcoholic or a drug addict.

Maternity leave in my country is 3 years. First year fully paid and 2 more years paid approximately 500 euros per month. Here maternity leave is 3 months. In my country it was the same in 1970's, Belgium is so behind from civilization regarding child's human rights. I wonder that here are not more psychopaths, as a baby being separated from mother make a permanent damage. Emotional handicaps here are plenty, perhaps all those judges and social workers who are not able to have sympathy for a child.

I'm sorry for my harsh words towards Belgium, but if you read my story carefully I think you will understand my bitterness.

Once this country I liked a lot, has become a prison for me. I really dislike being here now.

[Viking girl]

I can really understand Stace your situation. If your own mother is speaking against you, these authorities here are simply so stupid, that they will see it such that it must be the truth. They cannot understand why would your own mother speak against you. They have not enough intelligence to realize that inside families there can be strange tensions as well and even cruelty.

That's also the case with me. My ex has brainwashed one daughter against me, and authorities listen to that daughter blindly without questioning anything. Even though I have proofs from facebook where she writes that she will never tell them the truth, that she will never tell them what really happened. It is all too painful for her. She loves her dad too, that's normal. And it's too painful for her to admit that she saw her own dad trying to kill her own mom. Therefore she cuts herself, she started that while living with her 'lovely' father. Social says it's normal behavior!

[stace]

yeah its bad here they are verry stupid. but i wont give up and they will pay for everything
my husband says i should make steps to the newspaper because this is terrible for people such like me go throught things like this and the judges and social workers get away with what they do.
how long have you been througt all that know and still not finished?